 Miracles and Mathematics
From:  Galatians (wharrington1)   6/30/2001 7:06 pm  
To:  ALL    
 
  97.1  
 
Miracles and Mathematics 
If one uses some common sense and has any integrity at all, they will cease claiming the Bible is God's inerrant Word after reading the following segment, "Miracles and Mathematics" it is but one example of many Biblical absurdities noted in "IS IT GOD'S WORD?" By Joseph Wheless. http://home.kscable.com/galatians/04.htm 

Miracles and Mathematics: According to Numbers 11: 31-32 the quails are said to be stacked up "two cubits high" for a distance of "a day's journey round the camp." A Bible cubit is 22 inches; two cubits are therefore 44 inches. A biblical "day's journey," according to the Jewish Encyclopedia, is 44,815 meters (1 meter is 39.37 inches, or 1.1 yards), which equals 49,010 yards, 27.8 miles. Now, the camp of Israel (laid out as indicated in Numbers 2, and described by Balaam in Numbers 24) was, according to accepted calculations, twelve miles square. It would be crowded, with about 16,800 persons to the square mile; the densest population in the worst slums of any modern city is only some 25,000 to the square mile in many-storied tenement houses. And this doesn't allow a square foot for the millions of cattle 200 (refer to segments in Chapter 4 that precede Miracles and Mathematics). 

Around this camp, twelve miles square, on all its four sides, lay heaped these quails, piled 44 inches high. Assuming that this stack of quails began close to the four sides of the camp and extended for 27.8 miles in every direction, we have a solid square of quails measuring from one outer edge to another 67.6 miles, deducting of course the twelve-mile square occupied by the camp in the center. The solid mass therefore covered 4569.76 square miles, from which deducting the 144 square miles of the central camp leaves us 4425.76 square miles of quails piled 44 inches high. This stack of quails thus covered an area by 500 square miles larger than the whole states of Delaware and Rhode Island, plus the city of Greater New York! Such as to the space occupied, one quail, packed tight by the weight of the mass, might be compressed into about 3 inches of space each way, which would amount to 27 cubic inches of space per quail, or 64 quails to the cubic foot of space throughout the mass. Now, a surface of 4425.76 square miles, heaped 44 inches high with objects each occupying 27 cubic inches would make a considerable mass, which we must reduce to terms. 

One linear mile contains 5280 feet; one square mile therefore contains 27,878,400 square feet. The whole area of 4425.76 square miles would equal 123,383,107,584 square feet. Each square foot being covered 44 inches, or 3.66 feet, high with quails, each quail occupying 27 cubic inches of space, with 64 quails to the cubic foot, the total would be 452,404,727,808 cubic feet of quails. A bit of ready reckoning, on this conservative basis, gives us just 28,953,902,579,712 quails! Every soul of the 2,414,200 (refer to segments in Chapter 4 that precede Miracles and Mathematics), of the "hosts of Yahveh" therefore had the liberal allowance of 11,993,167 quails. It was a prodigious task to harvest all those quails; indeed, inspiration tells us, "the people stood up all that day, and all that night, and all the next day, and they gathered the quails: ... and they spread them all abroad for themselves round about the camp" (Numbers 11:31-32). This must mean all around within the camp; for the quails were already spread abroad for 67.6 miles "round about the camp" outside. Indeed, these quails stretched for nearly 28 miles, a whole day's journey, on every hand around the camp, an ordinary uninspired mind cannot grasp the process by which the millions (refer to segments in Chapter 4 that precede Miracles and Mathematics) of Chosen ever accomplished the incessant going back and forth, out and in, the hundreds of thousands of times necessary to harvest their crop of quails. And how quails covering compactly an area of 4425 square miles could be "spread abroad," when garnered in, in the 144 square miles of the camp, already crowded with tents and people, or where they ever put the feathers and "cleanings," is another holy wonderif the whole affair were not simply a matter of simple faith. And it is curious where the 2,414,200 Israelites stood to be able to get at the quail-picking; and how each person could gather up 11,993,167 quails in 36 hours, which would require them to gather up, each one, 335,366 quails per hour, or 5589 quails every minute, or nearly 94 quails per second of uninterrupted time, leaving them no time to carry the quails the average 28-miles into camp to spread them abroad, and no time to eat, or sleep, or sacrifice, or die, which over 1700 a day did, or to bury their dead, or to be born, as the comparison of the two censuses shows 1700 a day were, or for any other of the daily necessities of camp-life. 

Let us behold the climax of tragedy which capped this miracle of quails. Yahveh had promised his flesh-famished Children flesh to eat for "even a whole month," until they should be so gorged with eating quail that it should come out loathsomely at their nostrils. But when each of the children of Israel had gathered up his ration of twelve-million quails, and started to eat them, lo! While the flesh was yet between their teeth, the wrath of Yahveh was kindled against the people, and Yahveh smote the people with a very great plague" (Numbers 11:33-34), and untold numbers of the Israelites were slain because they had "lusted" for something to eat besides that loathed, oily-honey manna. Yahveh seems to have violated his sacred word, or at best "kept the word of promise to the ear, but broke it to the hope," as his children did not get their promised "flesh to eat for even a whole month," nor at all." 

From Chapter 4 of "IS IT GOD'S WORD?" By Joseph Wheless 
http://home.kscable.com/galatians/chapters.htm 

Surely, after considering the above one would have to be utterly dishonest or naive at best, to claim that God inspired such primitive mumbo-jumbo. 

Harrington Sites: Revealing the Spiritual duality of the Bible; for it is due to confusion sown by the Spiritual duality of the Bible that both good and evil are sown in God's name. 
http://home.kscable.com/galatians/ 

Numbers 11:31 And there went forth a wind from the LORD, and brought quails from the sea, and let them fall by the camp, as it were a day's journey on this side, and as it were a day's journey on the other side, round about the camp, and as it were two cubits high upon the face of the earth. 32: And the people stood up all that day, and all that night, and all the next day, and they gathered the quails: he that gathered least gathered ten homers: and they spread them all abroad for themselves round about the camp. 33: And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague. 34: And he called the name of that place Kibroth-hattaavah: because there they buried the people that lusted. 


It serves neither God nor truth to try and rationalize irrational things the Bible has said of God.
 
From:  ManafterGod   6/30/2001 8:06 pm  
To:  Galatians (wharrington1)   (2 of 16)  
 
  97.2 in reply to 97.1  
 
Why do people who do not believe in God write a novel to try to convince people God is not real, and they obviously use man's evidence to find God out. You know nothing about God, you don't know what God can do, if you want to know about God, won't you go to Him, pray and ask Him to show Himself in your life and then we will see whose right and whose been wrong all this time. 
Until then, until you do that, don't write nothing in a christian forum telling us your thoughts, feelings, and opinions about God. Thank you.

 Check out what the Holy Spirit is burning in the Holy Room! And see if you got the fire in you in my webpage!
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    6/30/2001 8:14 pm  
To:  Galatians (wharrington1)   (3 of 16)  
 
  97.3 in reply to 97.1  
 
Isnt the definition of a Miracle something that happens that normally physically couldnt. A miracle is something beyond normal physical occurrence. 
Had God sent 200 quail, then that would Not be a miracle. God did send a Billion Quail (or however many) and that is a miracle. God sent more quail then you can comprehend but not more quail then God can Comprehend. 

I did Briefly visit you Error Prone web site. For right now Im going to leave your links up, because your site is so easy to refute. But if when I visit again I find a General tone of disrespect, like in your post here. I will then delete the Links to your site based on disrespect not based on info. 

*Consider yourself Informed that this forum is all for discussion, But calling others Ignorant because they dont, live like you live, is not acceptable. Do it again and you will get Deleted. 

If you did have the facts on your side then you wouldnt have to resort to base tactics like offensive name calling. 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    6/30/2001 8:38 pm  
To:  Galatians (wharrington1)   (4 of 16)  
 
  97.4 in reply to 97.1  
 
The event in the Bible that you so misunderstand, is about God.
God delivered His children the Israelites out of the Slavery of Egypt, using many Miracles, (none of which you did the math on).

Once God has delivered His children from the slavery, the Children are to Exist on what God Miraculously provides. In this case God was Providing Manna bread from Heaven. We are told that the Bible is our Manna our bread from heaven. The Children refused the Manna and wanted Flesh so God gave them flesh in this case quail. 

The Event tells us that to feast on flesh is to Die on flesh. But to feast on Manna is to Live on Gods word.

For by the deeds of the Flesh it is not possible to please God.

Romans 8:8,9 So then they that are in the Flesh Cannot please God. But ye (Christian) are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is Life because of righteousness.

Some people might think oh, this action or thought of the flesh, it is so little, it is just a little quail lie, a little quail theft, a little quail blasphemy, a little quail fornication, a little quail deceit, etc. Stack up and eat enough quail sized flesh and it will run out of your mouth and out of your nose, consuming you! and killing you!






David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Galatians (wharrington1)   6/30/2001 8:45 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (5 of 16)  
 
  97.5 in reply to 97.3  
 
Rather than an idle boast of disproving what I post present a valid argument. And preaching is not valid evidence. As for name-calling, all I've said is after considering the mumbo-jumbo accounts of the quails in Exodus one would have to be naive or be utterly dishonest to claim that God was the author of that account. So are you saying that God is the author of such primitive things? And if you are, then your faith is not in God alone, as it should be, but is in what men have said of God. For you know God has not personally told you that He is the author of the Bible, but men have! 

It serves neither God nor truth to try and rationalize irrational things the Bible has said of God. 
  
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  From:  Galatians (wharrington1)   7/1/2001 10:30 am  
To:  ManafterGod   (6 of 16)  
 
  97.6 in reply to 97.2  
 
I most certainly do believe in God. Yet, my faith is not in what men have said of God, but in God alone. For faith in God and faith in the Bible are not one and the same. 

It serves neither God nor truth to try and rationalize irrational things the Bible has said of God. 
  
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  From:  ManafterGod   7/1/2001 2:52 pm  
To:  Galatians (wharrington1)   (7 of 16)  
 
  97.7 in reply to 97.6  
 
funny, the Bible isn't written by God. 
While why in the world everytime I'm going through something, He quotes a scripture to me that comes from the "man-written" Bible and not a Bible that He wrote? Hmm? Seems to me the Bible is His word and you better straighten up and see the light before it's too late.

 Check out what the Holy Spirit is burning in the Holy Room! And see if you got the fire in you in my webpage!
 
  
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  From:  Galatians (wharrington1)   7/1/2001 3:03 pm  
To:  ManafterGod   (8 of 16)  
 
  97.8 in reply to 97.7  
 
Where have I said there is no inspired truth of God in the Bible?

It serves neither God nor truth to try and rationalize irrational things the Bible has said of God. 
  
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  From:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   7/6/2001 12:38 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (9 of 16)  
 
  97.9 in reply to 97.4  
 
And what miracles would that be? All the 'plagues' still occur nowadays, and they're not miracles, but natural occurances, this manna of yours sounds a lot like a root that grows in the desert of that region. 

 
  
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  From:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   7/6/2001 5:27 am  
To:  ManafterGod   (10 of 16)  
 
  97.10 in reply to 97.2  
 
Why do people who do not believe in God write a novel to try to convince people God is not real, 
You need to spend a little more time understanding what you read. At no time was Galations trying to convince people god was not real. He just posted an article rationalizing that to credit the specific claims of the bible to god is a kind of disservice to the greatness of what a god should be. That claims that are made in the bible are so outlandish that they must be authored by a primitive people.

Nowhere did he try to discredit the existence of god.

...until you do that, don't write nothing in a christian forum... 

Uhhhh, he DIDN'T write NOTHING. Really.

;0)






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  From:  mrscottle   7/15/2001 11:24 pm  
To:  Galatians (wharrington1) unread  (11 of 16)  
 
  97.11 in reply to 97.1  
 
I have a good math puzzle for you straight from GOD'S WORD! The King James Version of the Holy Bible!!!!! 
What is the shortest chapter in the Bible? 
Psalms 117 

What is the longest chapter in the Bible? 
Psalms 119 

What chapter is in the center of the Bible? 
Psalms 118 

FACT: There are 594 chapters before Psalms 118 
FACT: There are 594 chapters after Psalms 118 
You add 594 +594 and you get 1188. 

What is the center VERSE in the Bible? Psalms 118:8 

Psalms 118:8 reads : It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence into man. 

Now this numeric calculation is amazing. God want's to be the center of everyones life. He sure made His point in more ways than one! 
I suggest you take heed to this. 





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Edited 7/16/2001 3:26:52 AM ET by MRSCOTTLE 
  
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  From:  Dr_Shock   7/16/2001 12:39 pm  
To:  mrscottle   (12 of 16)  
 
  97.12 in reply to 97.11  
 
It should be said that King Solomon was also noted for his dabbling in the Occult arts, especially sacred geometry. Legend has it that Solomon asked God for divine knowledge and God gave him the Pentagram and the Hexagram (which are actually an old Christian and Jewish symbols, although it doesn't quite look like the one which most modern Pagans use). 
Some museum copies of the Lesser and Greater Keys of Solomon the King are older or as old as most books in the Old Testament.


-The Mad Dr. Shock
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/16/2001 1:20 pm  
To:  Dr_Shock   (13 of 16)  
 
  97.13 in reply to 97.12  
 
Yes, it appears that Solomon did practice in the Occult. 
These occult practices are what led to much of the despair and emptiness of Solomon that he recorded in the book of Ecclesiastics. 

The people in the Old Testament were often types (Examples) of people to come. 

For example we learn a great deal about Jesus by reading about Joseph, who was rejected by his brothers, also by reading about king David, who triumphed over all of his enemies. 

King Saul the King before David is a type of Satan. It is interesting that Saul was the peoples choice for a King but Saul was never Gods choice to be King of Israel. And like Saul, Satan is a Trespasser who is illegitimately trying to be a king even though he does not have a legitimate kingdom. 

King David is a type of Jesus, David reigned and ruled from Jerusalem, as Jesus will reign and rule forever from Jerusalem. 

King Solomon is a type of the coming Antichrist. King Solomon was a very worldly king. The world was very impressed with King Solomon as the world will be very impressed with the coming Antichrist. Solomon received 666 talents of gold each year for his wages (2 Chronicles 9:13). Solomon built the first Jewish temple in Jerusalem. It is also possible that the Antichrist will build the future Jewish temple, also to be in Jerusalem. 

The Bible is clearly making points and examples about Good and Evil. Just because Solomon or anyone else (except Jesus) does something in the Bible it does not make it good. The Bible Often records events as they happened, both good and bad events. 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum




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Edited 7/16/01 4:23:22 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  Dr_Shock   7/16/2001 6:00 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (14 of 16)  
 
  97.14 in reply to 97.13  
 
The Hebrew story goes, as I know it, that Solomon's people were being troubled by all sorts of evil spiritual creatures. Solomon, being troubled by this, asked God for guidance in the matter and the knowledge to combat the evil spirits. God then gave Solomon knowledge of the Occult (hidden) arts so that he might defend his people. Even in his writings, Solomon warns people to only use his teachings when spiritual forces threaten the good work of humans. 
Welp, Solomon has this whole new knowledge to play around with (based on Quaballah teachings ironically enough) and turns the spirits away from the people. Instead, he created a ring that could control them, and he used this ring to force the evil spirits into the service of God by building the fist Hebrew Temple. 

<<<These occult practices are what led to much of the despair and emptiness of Solomon that he recorded in the book of Ecclesiastics.>>> 

Last I heard, Solomon was depressed because there was no one in the world he could have a educated conversation with. Being the "wisest man in the world" would carry this problem... Until he met he Queen of Sheba.


-The Mad Dr. Shock
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/16/2001 10:27 pm  
To:  Dr_Shock   (15 of 16)  
 
  97.15 in reply to 97.14  
 
Some Story,
The occult is Not protection from evil spirits the occult is communion with evil spirits.

Solomon did write this.
Proverbs 3:25,26 Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it commeth. For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.






David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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   From:  M_DAuvergne   7/17/2001 12:33 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (16 of 16)  
 
  97.16 in reply to 97.15  
 
Okayyy...So what makes these spirits "evil"? What have they done that was wrong. 
Do you believe in ghosts? If so, are they evil? What about the ghosts that are merely imprints of energy, that aren't really souls? Are those evil, as well? What if you encountered the ghost of your deceased grandfather, who used to take you to church and probably gave the dog too many doughnuts? Does this make your grandfather, then, evil? 

Also, what do you mean by "communion" with the spirits? Do you mean eucharist, or a bonding with? 



Only because that last post was fuzzy, 

~Coronus D'Auvergne
 
  
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